- EO Charging gives a turnkey service for car fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair parts of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh instructed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must preserve their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a venture, together with good vitality administration, might help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging gives month-to-month fee plans primarily based on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, so as to tackle completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like operating a site or a cellphone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely on a stack, which is a hip manner of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that perform collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be complicated. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might rely on extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it techniques which can be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising area reminiscent of EV charging infrastructure, it could be arduous for potential prospects to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them may be complicated—just like the record of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms specialise in one layer of the stack, and others provide a turnkey package deal, offering all of the services and products themselves and/or subcontracting with different corporations.
What’s the perfect course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a set month-to-month worth? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some ideas for purchasers.
Charged: What sort of prospects does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal prospects are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, reminiscent of Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which can be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as nicely.
The issue on this business is that everybody’s all in regards to the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the largest problem with charging in the present day—everybody thinks, “Man, if I might simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve received what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You have been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about quite a bit. I for one thought it was an amazing firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra via the lens of John Walsh could be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a yr in the past, somewhat bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had lots of capital that received burned via very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t surrender on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery techniques, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different homeowners now. Proterra had the perfect battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the perfect battery know-how. There are lots of firms that can use their battery techniques and have lots of success. I feel the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper via the know-how that was given delivery by Proterra.
Sorting via the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are lots of items to the charging puzzle. You’ve got your personal proprietary software program, and also you provide a full turnkey package deal for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s known as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you set the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s selection. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good alternate options primarily based on the ability ranges that they want. While you discuss to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually necessary that individuals overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply you must preserve the chargers?” Properly, you want to preserve your automotive, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly a very powerful piece we’ve, is a technical operations middle [TOC]. You probably have a cellphone, there’s a technical operations middle that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even comprehend it. That’s what we’re capable of do—we will see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. For those who decide a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different cellphone calls. That’s what prospects are annoyed with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re on the lookout for, and that’s what we do.
Considered one of our authentic buyers was an organization known as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide prospects. You may ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They’ll inform you that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that lots of the issues are as a result of there is perhaps half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a venture.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the top. We do companion with sure prospects or sure firms. For engineering, we’d companion with somebody. I’ll companion on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I received to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their fingers. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve received three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this huge depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different instances, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They might have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep techniques. With us, it’s all on one display screen. I feel that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the largest promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re capable of see the whole lot in a single spot from an operations middle.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I received to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their fingers.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are among the issues that may go unsuitable, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear probably the most is “You could pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? After I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, massive, massive firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they’d electrify. Then you have got Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re making ready for electrification. So, the error I feel will get made is, when you take UPS for instance, they’re going to say, “We received 100 vans. We’ve to cost all of them. We’ve received one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s whenever you hear all people busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Properly, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do lots of modeling for purchasers. “That is what number of autos we’ve. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the ability conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular instances of night time at a sure energy degree.
Don’t over-capitalize the venture. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You may work with the utility on that, but additionally work with firms like EO that will help you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking hundreds of thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the largest mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Properly, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing lots of proper now with prospects that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping the whole lot out—rip and exchange. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll provide you with that. However on the identical time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses below one roof. They knew from the start they have been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes have been arrange so they might simply add the chargers as they went alongside. Every thing within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous necessary.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the venture. Work with firms like EO that will help you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I think (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about these items) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We received a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as normal.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I feel that’s precisely what they have been pondering. Is it political? It may be in some circumstances the place we’ve to take care of a authorities mandate. What I like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which can be going electrical that don’t need to. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Properly, in the present day, on an electrical bus, you’ll be able to go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They replenish at night time, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month payment
Charged: You provide an entire turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll package deal our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations middle, and cost one month-to-month payment—it’s $59. That bundle is basically enticing to lots of fleet prospects.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants range. Some prospects have lots of idle time. Some prospects are placing lots of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as nicely. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want lots of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in the complete day, we’d go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from anyone in Kansas that is perhaps operating a great distance. So, we wish to give these choices to prospects and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to wish DC quick chargers, however they are able to get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from among the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve our personal charger known as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with lots of fleet prospects as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is basically enticing—you don’t need to get right into a Stage 3, which may be very costly. And the neat factor in regards to the Genius is we’ve them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we will ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, whenever you see our label on it, you must stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s anyone else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re completely satisfied.
The same old questions on traits
Charged: Persons are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s lots of firms, and a few them not too long ago went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I feel it’s a pattern. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to satisfy Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be inbuilt the USA, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Just lately, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s a superb factor as a result of we expect Heliox has a extremely good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we’d like the proper variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I feel consolidation is completely going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I adore it as a result of it’s possibly half the scale of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 autos on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to take care of, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their entire fleet electrified with out chargers taking over area.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one car at a super-high price, nevertheless it permits you to cut up that up. Is that one thing you’ll be able to’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You may, however you’re restricted—let’s say you are taking a 150 kW charger, you’ll be able to put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or are you aware of some business purposes?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them very well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was considered one of our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, nevertheless it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually desires it, and so they need it at scale. I feel V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Residing right here in Florida, if we’ve a storm and the electrical energy goes down, nicely, I’ve received an influence station proper right here—we’ve received 1,000 faculty buses sitting there filled with vitality. I simply need to have the potential to tug it off that bus and into one other car or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t provide you with an instance of a business software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
